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bmpress
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Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« on: December 17, 2013, 08:41:29 AM »

Hi Bob,
I am just getting around to (hopefully) using my Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 with the mark iii camera, and after re-reading your excellent review of the flash, I am confused about how to make the Metz work on ttl with my camera.

Can you please recommend an approach. I don't want to use my 580 EX flash because of the weight. Is there a light weight/low cost way to get the job done?

Thanks,
Barry
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Bob Atkins
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 01:22:33 PM »

For TTL operation you need to have something on the camera capable of wireless flash control. As I recall the MS-1 can act as a wireless slave so either the camera you use it on has to have wireless control built into the popup flash (like the 7D for example) or it has to have something in the hotshoe that can act as a wireless flash controller. That would either be one of Canon's premium speedlites (550, 580, 600 series) or a Canon speedlite controller like the ST-E2.

Otherwise you can use the MS-1 in manual mode using a PC cord. the 5DMkIII has a PC terminal, so you can certainly go that way. There's also a simple (non TTL) optical trigger, but since the 5D MkIII has no built in flash to trigger it, that's not going to help much.

Bottom line is that there really isn't a low cost leightweight solution to TTL operation. The ST-E2 is probably as close as you are likely to come. You can get a grey market one from Adorama for $210 and it weighs only 3.5oz (plus batteries). You can also use it to control your 580EX off camera. They also seem to have some used ones in stock for as little as $129, which isn't a bad price.

Check out Canon ST-E2 Speedlite Controller - $209.99
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KeithB
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 03:00:52 PM »

Something like the 90EX might work. and you get a flash, too!

(It think the 270EXII or 320EX would be a bit better, though, more flash power.)
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Bob Atkins
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 11:11:20 PM »

Don't think the 270EXII or 320EX can act as wireless controllers. They can act as slaves, but that's no good for controlling the MS-1. In general Canon have only put wireless master control in their "top of the line" models.

However the 90EX does seem to be able to act as a wireless controller. I was surprised by that, but I guess it's meant as the flash for the EOS M and they decided to a wireless master capability in it. Should work with any EOS DSLR just fine though. Note that it's actually listed as discontinued by Adorama but it is available from B&H as an imported "white box" unit. Might be just what you are looking for. If so maybe it would be a good idea to pick one up sooner rather than later! It is indeed very small and light. Nice catch Keith!

See 90EX Speedlite at B&H for $99
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KeithB
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 11:06:13 AM »

I was thinking of the flashes as flash triggers, not wireless controllers. I was working off this line in your review:
"If the camera has no wireless flash protocol and no PC flash cord socket, then if it has any flash at all the 15MS-1 can be configured as a wireless slave. For cameras which emit a single flash, the MS15-1 will flash in synchrony with the camera flash. For cameras which emit one or more pre-flashes for metering or other purposes, the 15MS-1 has a learning mode. Since the main flash is always the last flash of any sequence, the MS15-1 can count the flashes on a test shot, then apply that information to subsequent shots so that it flashes at the right time, synchronously with the main camera flash. "
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bmpress
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 03:53:12 PM »

Thanks both of you. But I'm still confused about use of a flash to do the job. I think that for ttl operation the Metz is actually triggered by infrared rather than light and when using a small flash on my 5d Mark III,  the light output has no function at all.

My reason for asking is that of recycle time. The Canon 90EX  apparently has a very long, 6 sec, recycle time when at its brightest output, so it would have to be set for lowest output to recover fast enough. But would that setting still allow me to ttl on the Metz? If I sound confused...it is because I am.

Thanks.
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KeithB
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 04:13:12 PM »

The Wireless TTL sensors on the slaves are IR sensors, not visible light sensors. Flash output has enough IR to trigger the sensors. The ST-E2 Bob mentioned filters the flashtube so only IR gets through. The pulses that send the wireless TTl information are very quick and low power so that it does not deplete the flash and allows it to recharge quickly. The re-cycle time would be after the whole series of pulses including the high intensity shot at the end. If you can use the 90EX as a master, than you can probably set it to not fire during the actual shot thus improving cycle time.

eta:
I just glanced at the 90EX manual. when in wireless TTL master mode it is prevented from firing as the main flash. That sounds perfect for what you want.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 04:25:17 PM by KeithB » Logged
bmpress
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 05:58:18 AM »

Thanks again, Keith. I just ordered the 90EX from Amazon for $69.95. The final decision point was that it weighs in at 2.6 oz with two AAA's, and my Metz macro flash also uses these, so I will not need to stock any other sizes. Plus, of course, that the 90EX is a very decent flash when used as primary...just like a pop-up unit.
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Bob Atkins
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 01:49:44 PM »

Sounds right to me! The optical wireless system for Canon does operate in the IR, but all flashes put out quite a bit of IR as well as visible light so they work just fine. The dedicated ST-E2 works totally in the IR.

As Keith says, recycle time shouldn't be an issue. The wireless TTL signals are brief and done at pretty low power. You'll more likely be limited by the recycle time of the MS-1 than that of the 90EX.

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KeithB
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2013, 05:27:06 PM »

Let us know how it works out.

"Pretty decent flash" is in the eye of the beholder. It looks to be at least 5x weaker than your 580 EX!

I am guessing it is just a rebel pop-up flash in a box.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 05:30:11 PM by KeithB » Logged
bmpress
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2013, 10:36:08 AM »

So the little Canon 90EX came (it is so cute) and after reading, re-reading and re-reading the three manuals (for camera, flash and macro-flash) I finally got it to work! But I am confused over its operation.

The 90EX manual claims that in wireless operation "it fires to control the slave, but does not fire as a flash."

Well...I looked at it during a shot and you can see it flash, so does that mean that I am really seeing a tiny burst rather than a full-power one? Or is the pre-flash optical and the actual shot merely ir?

Also, the Metz comes with an opaque shield to keep the on-camera flash from influencing the picture. So I tried it both ways, with and without the shield, and the exposure looked the same both ways.

Any thoughts?





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Bob Atkins
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 01:15:35 PM »

I'm pretty sure you are just seeing low power flashes that communicate with the slave. It has to fire a visible optical flash because it does not have any "IR only" flash capability. I'd have thought any preflash for metering purposes would come from the MS-1, otherwise E-TTL wouldn't work properly.
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bmpress
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Re: Metz Mecablitz 15 MS-1 and Canon 5d mark III
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 05:00:20 PM »

Many thanks for your help. Next I am going to try the 90EX to control my main flash off camera. 
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